You better get real comfortable for this one. It's practically a novel I tell you!
This has been the most difficult story to write for me so far. I struggled hard on this one because I really wanted to keep everything in chronological order. It really adds to the flavor to see how the whole thing progresses from one point to another.
In some of my past stories people have commented that they think me and my corp are a bunch of "holier-than-thou" types who think we're better than everyone else, who's shit don't stink and who are just the most kickass people ever. They feel I am a braggart, a boaster, and a show-off among other things.
Believe me, that is not my intent. I try to show the contrasts between people, their words and their actions. I've said countless times many of our wars are just for fun. No reason, no rhyme to them. Just random acts of violence. Sometimes we have reasons behind the war. Sometimes we're hired, though rarely. Sometimes it's a favor to a friend. Sometimes people open their mouth when they shouldn't or do something I don't like.
I admit, we "grief" corps by war decing them for ransoms. We will follow them through corps if they jump ship and kill everyone in our wake. We will have our alts and friends war dec them. We steal ore, we kill people, we instigate, we harass and we have fun doing it. We make no bones about it.
Some people label us the bad guys. I label us the fun guys. What you see is what you get.
Now you can say, "Who the fuck are you to judge people and act against them!?" or "What makes you so damn special that you think you can do no wrong?". It's not like that at all.
For example, if I steal your ore or pop your ship or do something you don't like, you have every right to come after me. You can come after my whole corp. We don't mind. That's our play style. We expect it. We welcome it. We do things we know can get us into trouble with corps or alliances. We understand there are consequences of our actions.
There are a lot of people out there though who feel that they should suffer no consequences. They feel that because they may not be as good in PvP as we are or that they have fewer people, younger players, or smaller ships that we should not fight them. That they should be able to do whatever they want and not have to face the music.
If you're in a industry type corp and someone kills you, steals from you or gives you a hard time, then you should think about your actions. Think about what might happen when you tell them to "Go fuck your mother!" after they steal 10k worth of Veldspar. I mean if you're really not up for a fight, or not able to maintain a fight or handle a month long war dec, you should just move on and live and learn. Lots of systems out there, lots of room to roam.
If you do decide to open your mouth, you should understand this is what could happen........
We are a Empire war dec corp. We have 26 members with over half of them being alts or inactive for various reasons. We really have about 10 players spread out all over the world who play on a regular basis. Due to timezone differences and such, we're lucky to have 4-7 people on and active.
I have had negative comments directed at me and my corp since I started it over a year ago. TRAPS picks exclusively on weak people. TRAPS doesn't do low sec. TRAPS doesn't play fair. TRAPS doesn't fight alliances. TRAPS doesn't honor 1 vs 1. TRAPS only blob. TRAPS only fight when they outnumber the enemy. TRAPS are a bunch of pussy smacktalkers.
All these claims will be made by our enemies in this next section. All of this will once again be proven untrue. You will see these people talking all this shit about us, but then you will see them doing the same thing and then talk shit about it. For example, we will score a kill 3 vs 1 and they will complain as if having more than enough firepower is a lame tactic, then you will see them score a kill 8 vs 1 and hoot and holler how awesome they are and we suck. To them, what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. Everything they do is above reproach in their book.
You will get to see both sides of it and decide for yourself.
Now onto the meat of this installment. You might remember from this story that we ran into a corp called E.M.P. who had one of their players attempt to steal loot from a war target kill we had just finished.
He took a cap booster 800. He was in a Megathron. He made a dash for it but we killed him with a Taranis and Hurricane. He decided to tell us all to fuck off and such. He claims he apologized for stealing it. However his first apology came after we caught him the next system over and had him locked down. He wasn't apologizing because he was genuinely sorry, he was apologizing in a vain attempt to save his precious battleship which he really had no business flying if he can get killed by a Hurricane and Taranis.
[ 2007.07.31 05:52:23 ] RyoukoBoi > your an asshole
[ 2007.07.31 05:52:41 ] RyoukoBoi > go fuck yourself
I think part of his hubris came from the fact he was in such a large corp. Those corps tend to think everyone is afraid of the numbers game. Lucky for them, a lot of people are, but we're not a group of those people.
Let's take a look at what we're up against, shall we?
178 people is a pretty large corp. Even if half of them are inactive or alts, you're looking at almost 90 players. Of course we decide to throw a war dec their way.
I also want to touch on what it means to be a CEO of a corp or leader of an alliance. That aspect of the game is part of what makes the rest of this story so interesting to me.
Being the CEO of my corp, I care about the welfare of my players. I try to make sure they have as much fun as possible. I try to keep them from losing and help them to win. It bums me out when they lose or when they are not having a good time. Just because we're a pirate corp doesn't mean we like losing. It doesn't mean "every man for himself".
We're actually a pretty tight knit group of people. Even with some of our older players leaving and having a fresh batch of guys, it's been a seamless transition.
Now if my corp was to garner a war dec from another corp, firstly I would say "job well done!" because we like that. We enjoy wars. It's what we're about. If we were a mission-running, mining, and industry corp however, I would be upset. I would expect that the war would be an inconvenience and stress to my members. I would try to squash the beef. I would do everything I could to protect my members.
For some reason the CEO's we are up against share none of those concerns. It's basically "every man for himself".
So Concord sends out the war notification and I hear nothing from the EMP CEO. Now we don't always make contact right away with our target. Too often they think we just want a quick buck and think if they can hold off a week, we will get bored and move on. Oh how wrong they are.
In the 2 weeks that has gone by since the Megathron/cap booster theft incident and we have not been contacted by EMP. Obviously their thief didn't inform them of what transpired. Now they have a war as a result and things aren't going so well.
The first few days of war has them chalking up losses left and right. Whats their first solution? Raise corp tax to 20%!
[ 2007.08.19 19:44:08 ] Maven Draconis > wow.. tax went to 20%??? WTF??
[ 2007.08.19 19:44:22 ] VIncent Vance > war time pressures...
[ 2007.08.19 19:44:46 ] Maven Draconis > I didn;'t think the corp was running low on funds?
[ 2007.08.19 19:47:11 ] sandan321 > maven alot has happened sence you were last on
[ 2007.08.19 19:47:30 ] Maven Draconis > I have only been away a couple days
[ 2007.08.19 19:47:34 ] sandan321 > the tax is tempory.. iskies for the war chest
[ 2007.08.19 19:47:42 ] Maven Draconis > I read the corp mails, didn't seem much was in the works
[ 2007.08.19 19:48:01 ] Maven Draconis > I would rather have someone organize mining ops than increase our taxes
I would agree, I would rather see some organizing before I paid a 20% tithe to these people. The sad thing is, they paid that tithing for nothing. There will be no organizing and no "war effort".
Now lets see. We have a 4 month old TRAPS pilot in a Myrm, in low sec, alone, fighting a 9 month old EMP character in a Brutix. Funny because according to our enemies we never fight solo, we don't go into low sec space and we only pick on newb players. I'd say this is pretty fair. They did on this one it seems....
[ 2007.08.24 05:07:34 ] Maven Draconis > wow.. I can actually fly a myrm
[ 2007.08.24 05:07:52 ] Maven Draconis > I wonder how he got me so much faster than I was getting him
[ 2007.08.24 05:08:32 ] Maven Draconis > wow.. I am even older than he is
We can't help what our opponents field against us. If they're foolish enough to fly a industry ship out an about, we're gonna kill it. We're not gonna say, "Oh, it's just a Covetor, leave him be. He cannot harm us.". You know damn well the other side wouldn't let one of our industry guys go. We have no industry guys, but you get my point.
The first few days of the war has them losing 6 BC's, a BS, some cruisers and pods a aplenty. None of them making any contact with us. Instead they sit there puzzled as to why they have this war looming over them......
[ 2007.08.18 17:07:12 ] DoomKitty > why is there a war anyway?
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:07:26 ] DoomKitty > I have never mined in lowsec before I think it would be very exciting.
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:08:00 ] Dukkai > lowsec has nothing to do with war...
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:08:15 ] VIncent Vance > its more to do with pvp corps picking on an easy target
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:08:24 ] DoomKitty > I'm sorry I have never been in a war or anything
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:08:43 ] VIncent Vance > they get more kills fighting industrial empire corps, and it looks good for them from a stats point of view
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:09:12 ] DoomKitty > that does not sound fair
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:09:20 ] VIncent Vance > also, its possible that they couldnt hack pvp in 0.0 and moved to empire space to take out easier targets
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:09:22 ] Dukkai > it is not...
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:09:51 ] Dukkai > also, many of their chars are like 4 years old...
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:10:14 ] Dukkai > so, they came in high sec to molest younger players...
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:41:00 ] Regulottus > no..i haven't been able to get on because of RL issues
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:41:06 ] Regulottus > what happened
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:41:07 ] Regulottus > ?
ï»¿[ 2007.08.18 17:41:33 ] Regulottus > crap...another wa?
We put a spy in the corp a bit before the war starts so we can get a full member list to hunt. The bonus to this was the entertaining chat logs they supplied us with.
So they claim we're looking for easy targets. 10 vs 178 is easy? You can argue that they are not PvP inclined like we are and I will give you that point. However, get a group of 10 carebears in BS's and you can definitely do some damage and take a few down with ya. With that many members you should be able to field 20 man gank squads. I mean most of the pilots we saw were in BS's before the war. One was even in a Navy Megathron which we wanted to see explode.
Also, we don't have a single player over 3 years old, so where are they figuring all our pilots are "like 4 years old"? Maybe if they tell themselves this, it helps them feel better about losing?
[ 2007.08.18 20:32:03 ] Neko Shizuka > if we do something it will have to be a gank, 4v1 at least
Ah, so look at this statement. 4vs1 gank squads are a good tactic they plan on using. So if they use it, wouldn't it be acceptable if we did it? They don't think so.
Of course there is no pleasing them.
[ 2007.08.20 22:40:40 ] Jmyotis > TRAPS
[ 2007.08.20 22:42:43 ] Jmyotis > Interesting, all have been members for 11 days or less.
[ 2007.08.20 22:47:17 ] VIncent Vance > pretty unspectacular war compared to previous ones
[ 2007.08.20 22:47:37 ] Tamasan > yeah, TRAPS doesn't impress me very much
I wonder if we impressed him now that hes lost an Arbitrator, Vengeance and Harbinger?
Still, they claim we do it for stats because it looks good. We never had a killboard for ages, so it's not a stat thing at all. Anyone can hack PvP in low sec. PvP in low sec is the same as it is in high sec only without bubbles. Really though, when roving through low sec, most of your kills can be slow industry ships, ratters, or people just moving from one system to another. None of them wanting PvP, most not prepared for it, and most are at a disadvantage as a result. With Empire wars you get 24 hours to prepare and make a game plan.
Lets take a look at EMP's game plan.......
Da War Plan
I had a good discussion with Luna today regarding our activites, or lack thereof during the war. This has prompted me to write a up a plan for executing during wartime. There are several aspects and all of which pretty much need to be followed or else this will fall apart.
1. All corp members must be capable of fighting, even the new players. This is not difficult as far as ships or skills go. All corp members should learn the following skills:
Caldari Frigate 2
Gallente Frigate 2
Propulsion Jamming 1
Sensor Linking 1
Electronic Warfare 1
It will not take more than a few days tops to learn these skills.
These skills will allow you to fly either a tackling frigate (for jamming warp drives and slowing ships down), a Gallente sensor dampening frigate (for reducing lock ranges and extending the time needed to lock), or a Caldari ECM ship (for blocking locks altogether).
Now the funny thing is that I have seen a ton of these on the forums of our targets in the past. They never do any of it. I see this given as advice on the forums to corps who get war decs that they can't seem to win. Let's see what else they're planning....
2. An EMP Strike force will be created. This is similar to the 'militia' idea brought up a few months ago but never was properly implemented. This will consist of players who are willing and able to easily jump into a PVP
mode...but not just for war part ops. What we need is for people who are willing to join the Strike Force to tell us roughly when they'll be available and in what roles. Roles will be:
Scouting (Covert Ops ships)
Damage (BC, BS, Stealth Bombers)
ECM (either sensor linking or ECM jamming)
Now this whole plan would entail a shitload of organization. After almost a week into the war you strt preparing? Why not prepare the second the Concord mail went out?
3. EMP members for the most part need to come home. In my opinion, the #1 reason people are leaving the corp is because we're no longer doing anything together. This was a good strategy a couple of months ago, but no longer works.
My recommendation is that we all base ourselves in the Slays/Amoen/Amasiree/Reurrotta systems. We have manufacturing at Slays, a POS that we can log off safely, and can never be camped. Amoen and Amasiree have excellent asteroid belts on their own. We can easily get Glare Crust ice from Reurotta. We have easy access to Stacmon and Alentene where prices
for selling options are good.
This can work for or against you. It might let you field a decent sized force to repel the attackers, it can also make it easier them to find and shoot you if you're bunched up and not organized well enough.
Mining operations can easily be coordinated in Amoen, especially if the explorers in the corp can find hidden belts to mine. Players, especially newer ones may be concerned about low-sec space. This shouldn't be a major concern. First, war targets can attack you anywhere, so high-sec space is not safe...besides which, you don't have ore thieves in low-sec. Second, most of the pirates in these areas are friends...so they won't attack you and sometimes will assist in attacking our war targets.
Third...Reg has a carrier. You think TRAPS is going to attack THAT?
I love that last line. My guess is this guy hasn't fielded that carrier a single time in any battle. Just like the high member count of his corp, that carrier is all for show and not for go. Just as he says the local crowd are their friends and will help them against us, we also have friends that would enjoy taking down a cap ship.
The role of the EMP Strike Force will be three fold. First, we will support mining operations, both in the belt (to protect against rats), and outside the belt (such as gate camping vs pirates and war targets). If this is properly implemented there will be more than enough warning for miners to flee to a station or POS for protection. Second, we will provide scouting and escorting to haulers and miners between systems, in order to sell ore or to move ships. Third, we will go after our war targets themselves.
5. The EMP Strike Force will need to be supported by the corp. It is expected that the people fighting won't make silly mistakes, but it is not right to expect the fighters to fight the war with their money. We are an industrial corporation, and we should be able to use that to our advantage.
My recommendation is that 50/50 corp ops be used to support the fleet. The corp's share of the ore can be used to manufacture ships and equipment for fighting. What better use of that share is there? We have a POS...we have the money for an alliance when we're ready... In the past the corp has paid for mercs to fight for us...why pay someone else to fight when we can pay ourselves? The Strike Force will lose ships early on, but the experience gained, even by the newer players in the frigates will build...
Ah wait, they're a 178 man corp, based in low sec, with a large POS? Attacking a low sec corp with a small force is "easy"? I would think it could be a challenge. They're always saying TRAPS can't handle low sec. So we attack a low sec corp and it's our fault they suck at PvP and have no defense force?
The bottom line is:
EMP gets war-deced because we're seen as soft. Unfortunately, the truth is that we are. It's time to change that.
Now they have their "war plan" in place. I wonder why it never occurred to them to just talk to us to see why we're fighting them and if there's anything that can be done to resolve the situation. A non-PvP corp's first step should be diplomacy I would think. Not these guys. They don't say a word to us at all.
No contact attempts from the EMP CEO either. Even when one of my guys catches him in a shuttle.....
Corp: E.M.P. Industries
Destroyed: Gallente Shuttle
Name: Dianeces (laid the final blow)
Corp: The Really Awesome Players
Weapon: 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II
So things are chugging along and we relocate out to Verge Vendor where EMP is based around and start picking off targets left and right. The best encounter had to be when we caught a Megathron, and the pilot had not fitted or insured it. So he did the only logical thing he could do at that point..........
I don't think my guys were expecting this and they kept on shooting a bit after his pod warped off. We did manage to get a free Megathron though, so that was mighty nice of them though.
[ 2007.08.23 03:18:31 ] Lord Lojak > shit WT in alentene
[ 2007.08.23 03:18:33 ] Slade Fox > thats what bros are 4
[ 2007.08.23 03:19:18 ] Lord Lojak > whoa i went right by them
[ 2007.08.23 03:19:39 ] Lord Lojak > Lord Lojak's Megathron back in the saddle again
[ 2007.08.23 03:22:06 ] Lord Lojak > shiy shit shit
[ 2007.08.23 03:22:29 ] t stryker > did u get jumped?
[ 2007.08.23 03:22:48 ] DeathWalker02 > ???
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:01 ] Lord Lojak > fuck yea i did
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:09 ] DeathWalker02 > did u go pop?
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:12 ] Lord Lojak > in an un arme3d bs
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:19 ] Lord Lojak > no i ejected'
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:35 ] DeathWalker02 > did ship go pop?
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:44 ] t stryker > was it insured?
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:46 ] Lord Lojak > no but it would have
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:48 ] Lord Lojak > no
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:55 ] Lord Lojak > god damn am i pissed
[ 2007.08.23 03:23:57 ] DeathWalker02 > they capture it?
[ 2007.08.23 03:30:55 ] Lord Lojak > well at least my pod is safe
[ 2007.08.23 03:31:03 ] Lord Lojak > and the 200mil implants
[ 2007.08.23 03:31:32 ] DeathWalker02 > what implants u have?
[ 2007.08.23 03:31:36 ] DeathWalker02 > +5's?
[ 2007.08.23 03:31:57 ] Lord Lojak > =4 ans some other ones
[ 2007.08.23 03:32:40 ] Slade Fox > holy crap
[ 2007.08.23 03:32:44 ] DeathWalker02 > wow
[ 2007.08.23 03:38:17 ] Lord Lojak > well the WT has a new unarmed mega
[ 2007.08.23 03:38:25 ] Lord Lojak > that i had just bought
[ 2007.08.23 03:38:34 ] Lord Lojak > pisses me off
I love that none of them mobilized when there were plenty of them in the surrounding systems.
[ 2007.08.23 03:42:01 ] Lord Lojak > yep the ship is gone
[ 2007.08.23 03:42:29 ] Lord Lojak > could always turn the mael into a mission boat
[ 2007.08.23 03:43:16 ] DeathWalker02 > petetion it
Petition? WTF would he be petitioning besides his own stupidity for flying an unfitted Mega through hostile space? I just don't get these people.
At this point we redec'd Caesarri Indutries again. It looks like Johar'an is back to milking newbie miners and buying their minerals way under market value so he makes a really hefty profit with very little work. He decides "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and reaches out to EMP.
Hello - I see your corp is at war with TRAPS. They have just war decced me as well (for the 3rd time). They like picking on young mining corps but like any bully they whimper and run away when they get smacked in the mouth. Let me know if you are interested in working together against them. I will probably be hiring a merc corp to put the hurt on them. Seems they are focused on Cistuvaert - this will make them easy targets.
Needless to say he never hired the merc corps as he promised.
So then we find out they have a POS in low sec. One of my corpmates is itching to try and take it down. I didn't have much interest in doing so, so I let him head things up. Our good friends in Repo decide to jump into the fray and assist with the POS takedown since they can field capital ships and we are nowhere near being able to do so.
[ 2007.08.25 05:06:28 ] sandan321 > !@#$!@ i am going to remeber them 10 years from today
[ 2007.08.25 05:06:45 ] sandan321 > what did we ever do to them
[ 2007.08.25 05:07:06 ] Lord Lojak > no idea
[ 2007.08.25 05:07:25 ] Lord Lojak > ive never even heard about them till they war dec us
Still no contact from them obviously as they still are in the dark about why they are being attacked. To me, that shows a serious lack of leadership especially when they raised the corp tax to 20% to help with the war.
[ 2007.08.25 05:09:01 ] Tamasan > did they even try to negotiate with us?
Why would the winning side negotiate?
[ 2007.08.25 05:17:35 ] Lord Lojak > i still dont understand wtf we did to deserve this
[ 2007.08.25 05:18:00 ] DeathWalker02 > theyre pirates
[ 2007.08.25 05:18:05 ] DeathWalker02 > thats what they do
[ 2007.08.25 05:18:42 ] Lord Lojak > still........................
[ 2007.08.25 05:18:45 ] Lord Lojak > y us?
[ 2007.08.25 05:19:02 ] Lord Lojak > cuz they are so many?
[ 2007.08.25 05:19:03 ] Tamasan > because they're assholes and they can
Because we are so many? Can these people not count? I wonder if they call everyone who they steal from assholes.
They really aren't happy with how the war is progressing it seems....
[ 2007.08.25 19:24:09 ] sandan321 > son of a bitch
[ 2007.08.25 19:24:34 ] DeathWalker02 > u get killed san?
[ 2007.08.25 19:24:42 ] sandan321 > @#$^#@$^#$%^&$*$*
[ 2007.08.25 19:24:59 ] sandan321 > am totqally pised
[ 2007.08.25 19:25:07 ] Lord Lojak > what did you loose?
[ 2007.08.25 19:25:22 ] sandan321 > bc
[ 2007.08.25 19:25:28 ] Lord Lojak > a myr?
[ 2007.08.25 19:25:34 ] sandan321 > kiss my ass
[ 2007.08.25 19:25:48 ] Lord Lojak > what did i do?
[ 2007.08.25 19:25:56 ] sandan321 > not you
They do ask some good questions though....
[ 2007.08.25 20:13:57 ] Hatzik > Are you sure? Why did we raise a POS in low sec then if we can not defend it?
[ 2007.08.25 20:14:26 ] DeathWalker02 > idk that was done be max
[ 2007.08.25 20:14:33 ] Hatzik > because if only Reg and Max have the skills.... POS is going to POP eventually... it is like using Drones on auto!
Unfortunately due to timing issues we weren't able to finish off the POS. That happens when you try to undertake stuff on such short notice with little planning, but it was still fun to see them panic.
While the POS was in reinforced somone, I suspect EMP or an alt, posted on the main Eve-O forums that EMP's POS will be finished off that night. You can read it here.
Of course EMP tries to come off like a bunch of poor defenseless n00bs who did nothing to no one and TRAPS are once again the big meanies picking on them for absolutely no reason.
Their corp starts posting to dispute the proof I posted of their guy stealing and then dying. They flat out make up lies saying we are extorting them for a 4 billion ISK surrender fee.
Their CEO says....
Even if this is true, the corp that this happened to should have come to me...first and formost. EMP does not support this type of behavior and he would have been removed. Talks are happening now within the leadership of EMP about this action since it has come to light.
Funny, it's all our fault it happened. Oddly enough now that he knows exactly what happened, he never does a thing to the thief. They let him stay in corp the entire time.
Another EMP person goes so far as to claim we did this as a setup!
As far as I am concerned, the scenario to start this was a setup
So yeah, we were bored, ran out to Verge Vendor 20 jumps from home, had another war target let us kill his T2/Faction Raven and then we sat there around the wreck and swapped the loot into a TRAPS jetcan and waited for an EMP member to come along and steal a cap booster so we could have a reason to war dec them. Yeah. That makes sense. The jig is up! We've been found out!
So they finally respond to our ransom demand.....
We do not negotiate with terrorist, which in fact is what this is. We are an industrial corperation that tries to get new players going on their feet. Yes, this may make you look big and tough on the outside, but in reality you are really only picking on noobs, which in effect are stopping new player from enjoying the game, so they quit. These kinds of tactics will never stop EMP, only make you more enemies. As far as leaving your corps alone....EMP has strict smack talk rules. The first time a person is seen or reported smack talking, they are repromanded. Repeat occurances, they are thrown out of EMP. It has always been the rule.
Sorry we can't pay, but it's how we are. We won't cave in.
I'm sure you are a bunch of good guys in real life, you just play the game differently then us (it's what I try to explain to my members), but we cannot support someone in this way and through different means, we will deffend ourselves.
A few minutes later they joined the Crimson alliance. They also had their friends in the oooh shiney alliance war dec us as well. So we have 2 alliance wars against our small band of banditos.
I can't help but think of the classic Steely Dan song Dirty Work. The first verse seems to fit what carebears do all the time.....
Times are hard
Youre afraid to pay the fee
So you find yourself somebody
Who can do the job for free
Keep reading though. The "job" wasn't free.
Crimson starts the war off with a bang by posting crap on that post under alts coming to EMP's defense and trash talking TRAPS. They call us lame for picking on defenseless targets. They call us weak lame losers. They have no clue who we are. Keep this in mind later in the story. If you read their responses in that thread, they try to put us down for killing defenseless people, they say we blob, and that their alliance is honorable because they're defending the weak, harmless EMP people. They claim all our kills are ganks. They claim we're fighting on our home turf. They complain we never fly alone and stay docked when we're outnumbered. Mark that all those down for later.
It's in this thread I am introduced to one of the most retarded CEO's I have seen in some time, Tigerfish Torpedo. He insults us, he tries to act like they are so much better, more noble and above anything petty.
Let's see some of his comments......
Firstly, as the head of CRMSN, I am the voice of the alliance involved. Therefore, I would like to place on record, that I had no idea of this 'theiving' which is the cause of this war. In fact, I was sent a screenshot to prove this act of theft, and it simply showed a Myrmidon moving towards a can (a TRAPS Myrm), and another neutral ship moving away. However, it doesn't really prove anything, as neither pilot was named, and the ownership of the can impossible to establish.
He was never told why the war started. Looks like the CEO of EMP left out a few details. Funny how he is an experienced pilot but when he sees the screenies of the EMP Mega stealing then dying, he can't figure it all out.
Their reason, as explained to me, was that this pvp corp (Traps) had war decced them simply because they could, and that "they were weak targets". Personally, I see my effort against TRAPS being one of gallantry.
So the EMP CEO lied outright. Not only did he not mention the thieving incident, he also claims we're just trying to pick on them because they're weak. He thinks he's gallant for defending and harboring smack talking thieves. Yeah, ok.
The best part about him taking in EMP was he never even asked the rest of the alliance. Why? Poor leadership is my opinion. He will explain why later in the story though.
I bid you good day sir, although I'm sure those words are wasted on you, being how you're incapible of mature conversation
I actually enjoy a fight without smack too, but it's been let down by you here.
So he is saying he is all about mature conversation and no smack talk. Mark those words too.
He tries to imply we don't fight when it's an even playground. As usual he leaves out the details....
We had one Myrm undock, but as soon as we locked him down, he redocked up and just sat there.
Wait. Do I see a blob? I thought that was lame according to them. So if it's so lame why are they doing it? Why are they posting that we're cowards for not engaging in that kind of fight. Lord knows a Typhoon, Hyperion, Eos, 2 Drakes, a Myrm, Manticore and Ishkur vs a lone Myrm is a completely fair fight and not a blob tactic.
Mind you, we never complain when our opponents show up in force. We expect it. We're a small corp against much greater odds so the chances of us being stuck in a station are pretty good at times. We don't smack talk about it. Though they are content to taunt and smack when we're caught in a station, then when we catch them in a station, they sit and smack about how many people we need to kill 1 person.
So let's take a look at what TRAPS is up against here....
A 17 corp alliance. Some industry, some PvP
See all those corps? He didn't ask any of them if they minded him bringing in a corp that was accused of stealing from others and also who had 2 active war decs against it.
I would think being the head of an alliance, you would include your members in certain decisions that could affect them, especially if it can affect them adversely.
I was sort of puzzled by this. I mean, I've seen corp CEO's let their members suffer, much like EMP's CEO did, and previous people like Johar'an of CAES.
Even though I have characters in alliances, I have never lead or been in the upper management of one. I was always just one of the many cogs of the machine. So I went over to the main Eve Online forums and posted this thread. I wanted to get opinions from corporate CEOs and from Alliance leaders.
Keep in mind, in that post, I never mentioned any names of any CEO's, corps or alliances. What ends up happening is Tigerfish shows up and tries to hijack the thread.
The general consensus is that most people do what's best for their corp/alliance, not what's best for themselves. Basically, they're team players who take others into consideration.
Tigerfish had said.....
I don't need to run any of my actions by the alliance. If they dislike my leadership they may speak out, or leave
That kind of shocked me and is the reason I made the post. That doesn't sound like a good leader to me. He posts in the thread that me making the thread is a personal attack towards him. Funny how there are no names mentioned at all. He says....
As if i could really care about you. Little too egocentric for me.
Have you seen this guys bio?
He's quoting his corpmates kissing his ass in his bio. Nah, not egocentric at all.
So anyways, the war is in full effect and we are racking up kills left and right.
We had one engagement where they had 2 of my guys cornered in a station. We brought in some backup. We engaged. They ended up running. We had a Domi, Wolf, Crow, Arazu vs them in a Ares, Jaguar, Harbinger, Vaga and Curse. Each side took losses, 2 for us, 3 for them. The Vaga and Curse got away. It was a fun fight. Tiger sat there in his Vaga taunting and bragging how quick he is and how he can't be killed etc etc.
Still we are racking up kills all over the place. Keep in mind according to our enemies all we do is blob, never 1vs1 and most definitely never fight outnumbered.
So I head out to one of the closer systems. 3 war targets and I am all by my lonesome. One flies by me in a Crow while I'm in my Myrm, so I sit on the gate and wait. Then outta nowhere, 2 haulers warp in and land on the gate.
So I pop both and scramble some eggs....
The Crow pilot doesn't come back and the other 4 people in the next system don't bother to undock and help even though they were all active.
Of course, we're the sucky ones according to them....
Intel: Seem to be idiots tbh, mostly T1 stuff, normally 1-2 people in a gang, to take down battleships they pull in others around, most battleship kills on their killboards are 4-5v1 kills.
So we're idiots because we fly cheap and take on BS's in 4 BC's? How exactly is that stupid? I mean, if we're so stupid, why are we winning this war hands down? What's that say about them?
So their tactics so far is to do absolutely as little as possible. No organizing, no nothing. Everyone just keeps going about their business and getting killed in the process. So he claims he care's so much about his alliance, that he will now penalize anyone who loses an industry ship.
Why on earth are we losing this war 16:2 at the moment?
Allow me to look at the killboard for an explanation....
1x Cruiser (Osprey, none combat fitted),
Will people try to understand that we have haulers, in external corps that can move anything without getting targetted by war targets. These industrial losses are stupid. If you need something moved, ask in alliance or contact me. If this doesn't stop soon, I will be looking to fine corps that lose industrial ships stupidly.
He said he will be fining them 10mil per indy ship loss. Instead of protecting them, instead of guarding them and enabling them to play their way (mining and etc), he tells them to sit docked and do nothing and if they do manage to die, they have to pay for it out of their pocket.
Now that sounds like a fun alliance to be in as well. Did you know he also charges corps to join the alliance? So obviously he is in it for the money. He said it, he doesn't care if they leave. He knows he will con another corp into joining and paying some outrageous fees to be a part of their Sylph ass kissings and get nothing in return.
That's right. Their 0.0 space is Sylph. I am not sure if they are renters or friendlies. My guess would be renters since they charge people to be a member in the alliance.
I love how Johar'an Caesarri is still telling them how he is gonna sic some mercs on us.
In the next couple of days you should see a new legitimate war dec against TRAPS as i will be finalizing a contract with 1 or 2 merc corps. There has been a pretty heavy pilot turnover in TRAPS in last couple of months and this is the perfect time to come down on them hard and put an end to their operations - they don't take well to losing ships and i intend to do my part to keep the heat on them. Good luck.
CEO Caesarri Industries
Another bullshit artist. No war dec's materialized. No surprise there. More carebears not keeping their word. Maybe he's mad because we keep killing his newbie slave miners?
So keep in mind we have a 2nd alliance jump in to kill us called oooh shiny. These guys seemed to be the real deal. Organized PvP'ers in good ships and whatnot. The only thing I was banking on was they were a flash in the pan, just there for scare. They kinda were in a way. I mean they were just helping out, and had no real beef with us, they were just there to try and score some kills, so it didn't seem like a personal vendetta.
They did manage to kill a few of our guys. 3 ships. They even killed a newblet who joined us and decided to mine in his Abaddon! Bet you'd never thought you'd hear that happen. "TRAPS member killed while mining in Abaddon, film at 11!". Needless to say, that pilot is no longer with us.
Crimson is still out mining AFK it seems. We passed thru a system to kill a CAES mining op and saw a Crimson guy in local. Now one would think he would dock when 4 war targets hit local and he's in a belt mining. Not this guy.
Tiger isn't happy with how things are going, so he sends out an alliance mail....
I know some of you are concerned about this war, and some of you are newer members that don't know what to expect from this. Basically, this war will allow the 2 corps to engage all CRMSN pilots anywhere they find us. However, as most of the war targets won't know our member lists, they won't know where to find us. Therefore, I invite all CRMSN pilots, who fear getting killed in this war, to relocate to Thakala, or even better; our 0.0 systems. The war will remain in high sec, and only the 26 man corp presents a threat.
That said, the best reason I can give for this war, is a simple matter of conscience. If you were in EMP industries, and had lost as many ships as them, you'd probably welcome our assistance. We have a great PVP wing, and I'm sure we'll be fine against this 26 man corp (our alliance being 340 atm, about to hit 440 when EMP joins).
This war won't last long, as the two corps deccing us get billed 150 mil per week.
Ah the old numbers game. I heard a few of them relocated to 0.0 space with them but the constant threat of hostiles there was as bad as our threat in Empire systems so they lost a few ships there as well.
I like how he says the war is a matter of conscience. Keep this in mind for later in the story. See how he tries to come off sooo much better than our pussy Empire bully corp?
Famous last words too about "the war wont last that long". Apparently they think we're poor and are only in it for the money. We're coming up on almost 1 month of the war being in effect and the end is nowhere in sight.
One morning I hear that there is a mining op not far from TMP and they have 5 or 6 guys out in the Covetors and one is in a Hulk. I grab on of my Thorax's and head out for blood. Unfortunately I was intercepted by an oooh shiny gatecamp in Bhiz at the TMP gate.
Not one to give up so easily, I am able to get my pod safely out and head over to Amarr. I buy a bottom of the line T1 Rax, with total crap gear. I know they have quite a few people in this op and I am not sure about who/what is waiting. I did spot a Cyclone guarding the Covetors but the Hulk was all alone. I figure I am going for max damage here so I will take out the Hulk and at most sacrifice my piddly Thorax.
I was able to loot the Hulk wreck and snagged some Strip Miner 2's but no small Gisti booster was fitted. The best part was is as I was looting it the Cyclone warped in and just sat there and didn't lock for some reason. I made it back to station to sell the loot and they had me camped up.
I was able to swing past their camp though.
I once again found it amusing that with all their complaining of us ganking them and "blobbing" them, they found it necessary to get 2 BS, a Curse and Jag for a T1 Rax. I mean outnumbering your opponent is what you should be doing. I never smack talk about how many people they bring out to hunt us. I would love to field a 10 man gang. I'm lucky to get a 4 man gang. It's the fact they cry and moan about "Those fuckin lamers just killed my Myrm with 3 BC! How fuckin lame is that!? They can't even kill a BC alone!" then turn around and get a 10 man gang and make fun of us for not undocking a BS to fight 6 BS, 2 BC and 3 AF's.
For example. I was in TMP alone. I saw two war targets. One Drake and one Interdictor I can't recall which. I see one of them at a planet so I warp to it in my Myrm. Mind you I had backup waiting one system over. So I warp to the planet just as the Drake leaves and the Dictor warps in. I get it webbed and almost manage to pop it. He MWD's out of range quick enough and sits and circles me. So I sit there waiting for the Drake to warp in. He warps in and I lock him down and my guys warp in.
CLICK HERE TO READ PART 2!
Niron - #1 - 2007-09-28 08:38 -
I still don't get how the Megathron episode happened. He passed war targets minutes before he decided to get in his unfitted megathron and jump out of system.
It was my fault it almost got blown up too. It was the last thing I expected and a couple of my drones didnt get recalled.
iuchiban - #2 - 2007-09-28 09:48 -
lol. it was an ares not a dictor but the point is the same. we totally got owned there.
freaky - #2.1 - 2007-09-28 15:59 -
Thanks for the correction. Hard to remember those small ships 6 weeks after I tried to kill it.
Yes, you didn't smack talk it was Blackrain's alt.
iuchiban - #3 - 2007-09-28 09:51 -
and just to clarify the one talking smack was the drakes alt not mine. i was in the interceptor. nexa knows me. i dont smack talk much. well not too much anyway
Francois Feldspar - #4 - 2007-09-28 21:27 -
I just wanted to add some context here. Specifically, regarding to Da War Plan, which I did write.
"There are several aspects and all of which pretty much need to be followed or else this will fall apart."
Well, basically it fell apart. 'nuff said.
"Now this whole plan would entail a shitload of organization. After almost a week into the war you strt preparing? Why not prepare the second the Concord mail went out? "
The best time to start preparing is before the war. The second best time is when the war started. The third best time is sometime after. Are we to be criticized for TRYING to organize at some point? I don't think that's a fair comment.
I am not going to excuse the fact that we sucked at PVP. I don't think any of us really had any experience at doing it. In fact, I was ready to stop playing EVE when the TRAPS wardec occured, and tried to take this as an opportuntity to get some experience at it. But I couldn't exactly do it by myself.
I am not one who accuses TRAPS (or any other corp) for declaring war on an industrial corp. You don't need a reason. It's part of the game. But to belittle someone's attempt to actually try to get organized to fight back is a bit below the belt.
"I love that last line. My guess is this guy hasn't fielded that carrier a single time in any battle. Just like the high member count of his corp, that carrier is all for show and not for go. Just as he says the local crowd are their friends and will help them against us, we also have friends that would enjoy taking down a cap ship."
You're right. I've never flown a carrier. At the time, I'd never flown a BS either. I'd been in exactly zero PVP encounters. At the time that was written, I didn't know about REPO, or their cap ship capability. Obviously if I had, I wouldn't have written what I did. All I had to go on was what we had seen you do, and I didn't think that you'd have the capability to take on a Carrier.
As for the carrier being no-show...the pilot had a death in the family right about then and was practically gone from EVE for a month.
"Ah wait, they're a 178 man corp, based in low sec, with a large POS? Attacking a low sec corp with a small force is "easy"? I would think it could be a challenge. They're always saying TRAPS can't handle low sec. So we attack a low sec corp and it's our fault they suck at PvP and have no defense force? "
No, it's not your fault. And I NEVER made that statement. As has been mentioned before in other areas, although we seemd to be 178 strong, we weren't. It was closer to 70 which is what EMP is at now that most of the non-loggers were jetisoned. Obviously attacking a medium sized industrial corp IS easy...you handed our asses to us. Repeatedly. The point was to make it as difficult for you as possible.
The plan was never implemented fully. I could never get more than a handful of pilots to chip in. That is our fault. As I said in my bottom line, EMP had to get some bite to it. Ultimately, we failed.
"Now they have their "war plan" in place. I wonder why it never occurred to them to just talk to us to see why we're fighting them and if there's anything that can be done to resolve the situation. A non-PvP corp's first step should be diplomacy I would think. Not these guys. They don't say a word to us at all."
Actually, I wanted to fight you. I relished at the idea of getting some battles under my belt. I was initially happy about joining Crimson since it gave me the opportunity to go on some war gangs and get some experience. Obviously that didn't work out well once we got booted from Crimson.
But I have to ask...was the plan bad? I'll never know now...but I would have to think that after some time at getting some battle experience, 70-odd pilots that were capable of fighting would have been a good challenge for you.
As it was, it was a cakewalk.
Francois Feldspar - #5 - 2007-09-28 21:37 -
Incidentally, at the conclusion of the TRAPS war, I regretfully decided to leave EMP. It was either that or quit the game altogether. I did get one satisfaction near the end of the war...even though I ended up losing my ship I was happy to at least have surpised Niron.
Okay, so I take my minor victories where I can get them.
freaky - #6 - 2007-09-28 22:11 -
Franc, I wasn't belittling your guys' attempt at formulating plans.
Had you follow through and failed that would've been nice because at least the effort was made.
In EMP's case the corp taxes were raised to 20%, and that war plan was written, and nothing was done.
So my point was, the corp paid extra out of their pockets and got nothing in return.
As far as Reg fielding his carrier, I meant overall, not just when our war started which coincided with him having RL issues. He wasn't on much at all and if he was having RL issues like that, no one would fault him for it.
I was just pointing out that people will buy/fly ships that they never fly/use except for intimidation. The statement made in the war plan was "Reg has a carrier, do you think TRAPS would fight that?"
Has Reg ever fielded it, or is it for show?
I and my corp never underestimate any of our opponents regardless of corp size or character age or play style. We have no real idea what you can do until you do it. Until then we hope for the best and expect the worst.
I know you didn't make the derogatory comments, but plenty of your corp and alliance had made a lot of them though.
While you may have wanted a fight, it was apparent in the chat logs that more people wanted peace, not war.
Honestly, that plan sucks. No offense though because as I said, I see that plan posted on forums all the time. I've never seen anyone do it nor have I heard of anyone being sucessful at it.
It's one of those plans that sounds good in theory but putting it together and actually making it work are extrememly difficult.
I remember one corp we dec'd came out in 8 or 9 frigs to try that plan for their first fight. They all died to me alone in a Domi.
It was a fun fight, the pilots were good sports and I almost ended the war because they were really cool, but right at the end the CEO started smack talking me personally, so I kept the war going a few weeks.
Honestly I would not have goofed on any of you guys but when you have people from your corp stealing from mine then smack talking us and we war dec you, then you continue smack talking and making false accusations about our corp instead of taking a diplomacy tact or just fighting it out or even just hiding out which is fine.
If you want respect, you have to give it.
sandan321 - #7 - 2007-09-29 10:47 -
seems you left out the parts where i as 6 month old player.. escaped from the last war party of 5 ( no names of course ) while mining.. and um ya left out the part where i escaped the time before that..( again no names) hey guess what ya also left out the very first escape... now ya might be a great PVP corp but ya have a hard time catching lonely miners...
freaky - #7.1 - 2007-09-29 18:33 -
Wow you escaped that many times? Damn, you ARE good!
Anonymus - #8 - 2007-09-29 13:44 -
Let more self important ramblings from Nexa - Eve's biggest drama queen and attention whore. Strange how you don't mention how you jumpclone when you can't get an easy kill, or that your big tough myrm pilot Niron went all crybaby when he got popped in a fair fight and pulled the old classic "I got disconnected". You hardly ever fight Nexa, you're yet another in a long line of anonymus teenage pussies in EVE, bullied in RL so you take out your frustrations from the safety of your keyboard. You also fail to mention that you are losing corp members as they are sick of you not fighting, or the fact that you don't have the balls to take on any of the O.O corps. Grow up, get a sense of humour you isk buying oxygen thief. Nexa Necis - living proof that a fetus can dodge a coathanger for 9 months.
Anonymus - cos none of us is as bad as all of us.
Niron - #8.1 - 2007-09-29 18:13 -
[ 2007.08.29 17:07:31 ] Niron Werls > nice job guys
[ 2007.08.29 17:07:37 ] Tigerfish Torpedo > Thank you
[ 2007.08.29 17:07:40 ] Niron Werls > got caught out with a disconnect
[ 2007.08.29 17:07:46 ] Niron Werls > but i wouldnt have stopped firing if it was you
[ 2007.08.29 17:08:10 ] Tigerfish Torpedo > Aye We lost a ship to ya CEO in the same fashion this morning
[ 2007.08.29 17:08:18 ] Niron Werls > yep
[ 2007.08.29 17:08:28 ] Niron Werls > I guess EVE is a bit flaky. But you still caught me anyways
[ 2007.08.29 17:08:43 ] Niron Werls > And its still a good kill on you guys
[ 2007.08.29 17:08:58 ] Tigerfish Torpedo > It is Morale booster certainly
[ 2007.08.29 17:09:07 ] Niron Werls > Figured I would drop a line since when I logged back in I was no longer in the system
[ 2007.08.29 17:09:17 ] Niron Werls > ok you guys have a good day. Hope we meet again soon
I guess your version of whining is different than mine.
Anonymus never forgets - #8.1.1 - 2007-09-29 20:23 -
[ 2007.08.29 17:07:40 ] Niron Werls > got caught out with a disconnect
But what actually happened was that you kept undocking and re-docking thinking you were safe then oh noes!!! you got bumped out of the docking lane and then givien a right shoeing, so you try to claim you got disconnected.
And as for who I am, I'm not Tiger or anyone in crimson, I'm actually closer to The really average players than you think....
coming soon...Dox drops on nexa and niron..watch this space
Niron - #188.8.131.52 - 2007-09-29 22:23 -
lolz I have my first EVE stalker.
I must be doing something right.
freaky - #8.2 - 2007-09-29 18:36 -
Tiger strikes back! Or someone from Crimson obviously lacking the courage to post with their main characters name. No surprise there.
We "lost" 1 corp member during the war. The rest were booted for over 2-3 months of inactivity.
Looks like Niron's post below shows exactly how we "whine" after we lose.
TLani - #8.2.1 - 2007-10-31 21:54 -
I love reading your posts. You write so well and you make it seem as if we were with you on the hunt. I could learn so much from you and would be willing to also, if I wernt so afraid of you blowing me out of space. Lol! I look forward to hearing more of TRAP's exploits. Sounds like you all really do have a lot of fun.
flashfresh - #9 - 2007-10-01 09:14 -
I love this thread. Not going to comment too much as I am zooming over to part two! Love it. Keep it up. Kill them all.
Ant - #10 - 2007-10-01 14:30 -
damn i'd like to join fun
APilot - #11 - 2007-10-01 14:52 -
Awesome story, good writing; concise and cohesive and well put together off to part two, work will have to wait
Are TRAPS recruiting?
freaky - #11.1 - 2007-10-01 15:52 -
We're always recruiting. Read our Eve-Pirate story on our recruiting process and requirements.
Anonymous - #12 - 2007-10-12 17:20 -
if that brutix vs myrm fight is a 1 vs 1 why does it say "gang 7" in the gang window?
freaky - #12.1 - 2007-10-13 17:28 -
Because he was in a gang with 6 others. Notice there's no one else from our corp in local. Idiot.